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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 16, 2004 8:36pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Defects of the Medicus Collection

The film-maker was a wealthy man with many interests (including travel, collecting expensive art obects, etc). At the time, his films would have interested his friends. I have downloaded the entire set but if I showed them to my friends, they would be "bored to tears " after 10 minutes.He has techmical expertise using his movie camera BUT he is NOT A FILM MAKER.The collection is really a huge amount of archival film footage. It needs a Script, Editor, Sound( music, effects, narration) . However before ths can be undertaken , extensive research needs to be done and this will probably involve several specialists. I have only touched on the problems and it is not a job(S) for the faint-hearted.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 16, 2004 10:31pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Defects of the Medicus Collection

I'm not even going to take the bait on this one.

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 17, 2004 6:48am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Defects of the Medicus Collection

Useless replies to my original post were neither requested or welcomed....RIDETHEORY if you read my post you will see that I have given a short assessment and that it is WITHOUT MALICE

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 17, 2004 12:48pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Defects of the Medicus Collection

I think the films are great as they are, and also have the potential to be edited into a very good documentary on the fair. They are long and kind of boring in stretches, but that's because Medicus was smart enough to shoot lots of footage -- almost as if he knew someone in the future would want as much "coverage" as possible so the films could be edited into something new. (I'm in the process of doing just that with his Futurama footage.)

The whole "Hot Mikado" sequence is boring as heck, shot from his seat and all in a long shot. But notice that for the Aquacade, he sat through the show twice, shooting it from different angles, and editing the results together.

In his other World's Fair films, he holds the camera for a long time on crowds, people resting on benches, eating, or just walking by. Spuzz's comparison to Ivan Besse is very apt.

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 17, 2004 3:44pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: similar to News Reel Film

Has anyone seen the film "NEWSFRONT"? This is the kind of treatment that I would like to see applied to the Medicus and Besse collections . However it would require a master film-maker.

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Poster: Spuzz Date: Jul 17, 2004 10:15am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Defects of the Medicus Collection

Explain to me, (I'm asking this without Malice too!) what the difference is between Mr Medicus and Ivan Besse. In effect, is your beloved Mr Besse not a filmmaker either? After all, his films can be classified then as a "huge amount of archival footage" too. Nothing there but footage of the late 1930's in dustbowl america. Here we have footage of the glorious fabulous world's fair!! Now tell me, what IS the difference between that filmmaker and the other? It sounds to me like Mr Besse had a lot of money lying around if he's making films that feature nothing but the townspeople.

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 17, 2004 11:07am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: about IVAN BESSE

He was a projectionist employed by the Strand Cinema. Much of what I said in my post on Medicus(Defects) could also apply to Ivan,s output. Ivan,s films were shown on the next Saturday in the Strand Cinema and obviously faced a very critical audience who would look for defects in his film making. I have no information on the nature of the audience for Medicus film material or of any critical response. If such info becomes available , then I will gladly add a new post revising my opinions.Medicus was certainly wealthy but I doubt that it is the case for Ivan Besse. My revisions are correction of spelling errors

This post was modified by cashel on 2004-07-17 18:07:11

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 17, 2004 2:16pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: about IVAN BESSE

What is your source for info about Medicus' wealth? I haven't found anything on the internet about him.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffRick Prelinger Date: Jul 18, 2004 8:12am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Medicus

I haven't confirmed that the two Medicuses are the same, but I think it's probable. We have family films of his and it is clear that he was at least an upper-middle-class person. His widow died last year, but I can't locate the obit clipping right now.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 18, 2004 9:52am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Medicus

Thanks for the information.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 18, 2004 12:05pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Philip Medicus -- citation about his interest in photography

From the NYT, October 6, 1940

PHOTOGRAPHERS' WAR TRAINING

With the realization that only a few of the thousands of amateur and professional photographers in the United States have any knowledge of the requirements of military photography, even though they may be skilled technicians, and with the hope of making the already proficient photographer more valuable to his country in the event he is called for service, a Civilian Photographic Training Committee has been formed to teach the military aspects of picture making.

The Committee is nonpolitical, unofficial and entirely civilian, and has as its sole purpose the training of professional and advanced amateur photographers of military age to use their technical knowledge to the best advantage. The committee consists of representatives of the amateur organizations, the press and professional groups. Its members are Robert W. Brown, chairman; Kenneth H. Adams, Ernest E. Draper, Alan Fisher, Norris Harkness, Steadman Jones, Stanley A. Katcher, Frank J. Liuni, Ira Martin, Arthur S. Mawhinney, Phillip Medicus...

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 17, 2004 4:36pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Medicus wealth

I think that a good indication can be found by perusing the book " American Swords from the Philip Medicus Collection by Nora Flayderman " The book can be described as a photographic documentation of an enormous collection.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 18, 2004 12:46am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Medicus wealth

Does this book confirm that Philip Medicus is the creator of these films? A quick google search on the name "Philip Medicus" only brings up the sword book, not the films.

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 18, 2004 7:13am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Medicus wealth

I will exasperate and irritate by replying wirh this item of TRIVIA. In the mid 1930,s and the early 1940,s Philip Jay Medicus of New York City was one of the pioneer dealers in Cartridges(for guns).He prided himself on being the only dealer who made his entire living from Cartridges. edit (spelling error)

This post was modified by cashel on 2004-07-18 14:13:00

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 18, 2004 11:40am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Medicus wealth

That doesn't quite identify Philip as the Medicus who made the films. Is there anything in the book that positively confirms they are the same person?

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Poster: tambora Date: Jul 18, 2004 12:42pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Defects of the Medicus Collection

Saying that Besse and Medicus aren't filmmakers is like saying that Tycho Brahe wasn't an astronomer.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 18, 2004 1:23pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: Defects of the Medicus Collection

And that's as plain as the nose on your face!

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 18, 2004 11:04pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

Ridetheory,s comment that it is as "plain as the nose on your face " and Tambora,s reference to an astronomer are NOT useful. There are millions of photographers recording events. So if you wish to discover Art in film footage you will need to be more careful in the selection of examples. (revision:spelling corrected)

This post was modified by cashel on 2004-07-19 05:51:54

This post was modified by cashel on 2004-07-19 06:04:13

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 19, 2004 1:30am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

Here we go again, again, again...

"Plain as the nose on your face" was a joke, because Brahe had an artificial nose made of gold.

http://www.highrise.dircon.co.uk/deptlads/themes/tycho_brahe/tycho.htm

What is the difference between this off-topic thread and asking about the origin of the word "fillum"?

Why do you get so upset when the rest of us have a casual conversation? As much as you would like it to be, this is not a scholarly discussion among academics who are readying a paper for a peer-reviewed journal -- it's a bunch of goofballs who like odd movies and like to talk about them. And even if it were a bunch of scholars, believe it or not, they make jokes too.

It's hard to imagine a post more useless than a post complaining about the uselessness of other posts. Me arguing with you about it is slightly more useless, I suppose, seeing as you won't pick up the hint that you are misbehaving. It's called trolling. It is unseemly. Please stop it.

You also use reviews to review other reviewers' reviews, rather than the films. How useful is that?

This post was modified by ridetheory on 2004-07-19 08:30:29

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Poster: tambora Date: Jul 19, 2004 8:17am
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

The joke was appreciated. And, unlike Cashel, I got it.

Part of filmmaking is choosing what to point your camera at. If you point your camera at something no one else did, then you are probably a good filmmaker. In the case of Besse and Medicus, their contributions are unforgettable and unique. Therefore, they are good filmmakers.

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 19, 2004 2:23pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

Tambora..I have waiting for someone to challenge YOUR STATEMENT that " If you point your camera at something no one else did, then you are probably a good film maker". This will please the many consumers who own a video camera BUt I would think that most of their output is unviewable except by a select few and does not represent the noble art of film-making.

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Poster: tambora Date: Jul 19, 2004 3:16pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

While I respect Ridetheory's incredibly valid opinion, I must explain my brief post to Cashel.

Obviously, every film is unique and, in a way, every filmmaker, even a parent with a bouncy camcorder, records a unique event or a unique aspect of a common event with every film they make. My statement didn't apply to them.

I didn't mean that that parent is a great filmmaker for filming their child on Christmas morning. I mean that well before camcorders were invented, the first guy to use real Kodakchrome to film his kids open presents was a unique and a good filmmaker. Nobody recorded the minute details of life quite like Besse did, and definitely not during that time period; therefore I consider him a good filmmaker.

And certainly it goes the other way; those who record the obscene limits of the human experience just to shock is not a good filmmaker, even if what he films is unique. Of course, if he intends a message beyond the shock value, I might re-evaluate that statement.

In short, Thomas Edison was good filmmaker for filming a few frames of boxers in a ring, not because of any great filmmaking techniques, but just because he was one of the first, and Larry Flynt can film as many lewd sex acts as he wants to, but just because he put them on film first doesn't make him a good filmmaker.

In shorter, to be first is to be good, unless that first is patently offensive and unartistic.

That's just my opinion. I guess we can drop it now.

EDIT: Oh, and as to the unviewability issues, Stan Brakhage is unviewable. So was Andy Warhol, and yet they are considered significant filmmakers in spite of themselves. Maybe not quite directly on topic. Anyway, I apologize again to ridetheory.

This post was modified by tambora on 2004-07-19 22:16:41

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 19, 2004 3:21pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

Well put.

I don't mind off topic posts (I certainly make my share of them) but when the arguments degenerate into Cashel threads I've read a dozen times before...

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Poster: ridetheory Date: Jul 19, 2004 2:39pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: Re: viewing these films is just the BEGINNING of the learning

May I please gently request that we steer the conversation back to the specific Medicus film in question, rather than go off on one of these tangents again?

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Poster: cashel Date: Jul 18, 2004 4:33pm
Forum: movie_of_the_week Subject: They have their great moments

I accept them as film-makers in the honorable classification of "newsreel photographers". .